Curse

Luggage · May 25, 2005, 09:40 PM // 21:40

...on the thirsty river mission.

Is this seen as a valid tactic by people or do you like me see it as an exploit of the game mechanics that really cheapens it.

I'd like to see the timer start as soon as anyone enters the next arena - but perhaps thats just me.

Thoughts?

Kershent · May 25, 2005, 09:43 PM // 21:43

I consider this an exploit. It's completely bypassing a factor of that mission, and it's very obviously NOT how the devs intended us to do it. How ISN'T that an exploit?

Nash · May 25, 2005, 09:51 PM // 21:51

Oh no! You can beat a mission easier using it!
It's like the only use of Necrotic Transversal, anyway.

thorizdin · May 25, 2005, 09:53 PM // 21:53

This is as much of an "exploit" as placing buildings to close together in SWG was. If the measurement for what is and isn't an exploit is whether it meets the devs intentions then several other things have be included in the list including farming (already received a substantial nerf) and twinking, level 3 to 20 just for beating the mirror.

This is not to say that the devs shouldn't look at this and see if the map needs to be tweaked to take Necrotic Traversal into account, but calling creative tactical thinking an exploit punishes the exact kind of thought that it takes to win in PvP. Which is exactly what Thirsty River is trying to teach.

Luggage · May 25, 2005, 09:55 PM // 21:55

It's only easier if the group only has one or two good players (with traversal) and it takes ages compared to just playing it as intended...

Synthos · May 25, 2005, 10:10 PM // 22:10

Its called good tactics

It requires more working as a team then it does if you go in there and kill everything.
There is nothing cheap or wrong about it.

kaya · May 25, 2005, 10:13 PM // 22:13

ya, this mission really isn't all that hard to beat. i have been doing it with henchies (the real way) for item drops. In my opinion people that try to cheat they're way around it are only making it harder (longer) than it could be if they stratigized, and did it the right way.

Phantom Force · May 25, 2005, 10:15 PM // 22:15

All games have exploits and I've been in games with far worse exploits. The mission is not that hard even if you do not use necro traverse. For them to attempt to fix it would be a waste of time IMO. I can find far more things that should be fixed than worry about a silly little exploit like traversing to cheat a timer.

Granted doing the mission w/o traversing is much more satisfying, but you do what you must. I've done it once, I may or may not do it again. It's really not one of the major concerns but it's more of a moral debate and feeling of completion. Majority of people always feel better when they do something the way it was meant to be, but sometimes you just want to get it done and not bother. Take your pick whatever works for you

Poppinjay · May 25, 2005, 10:20 PM // 22:20

Quote:

Originally Posted by thorizdin

If the measurement for what is and isn't an exploit is whether it meets the devs intentions then several other things have be included in the list including farming (already received a substantial nerf) and twinking, level 3 to 20 just for beating the mirror.

This is not to say that the devs shouldn't look at this and see if the map needs to be tweaked to take Necrotic Traversal into account, but calling creative tactical thinking an exploit punishes the exact kind of thought that it takes to win in PvP. Which is exactly what Thirsty River is trying to teach.

Excactly, dev intent is not a factor of exploits. Certainly the first people to lay down the rules for chess didn't forsee all chess openings in the future, but clearly these moves are not exploits.

What we need to do is hope for developer foresight, not guess at their intentions. You don't want people to be afraid to use their tactics cleaverly. Otherwise you will call a new two profession and skillset combination that works really well but nobody has done before an exploit.

So far though the game is more balanced and well thought out than any online game I have seen. It has some problems, but it is a BIG step forward. There are only a couple of things you can really be sure are exploits and GW doesn't seem to have problems with them. Duping, and running special programs and hacks that give you powers outside what you can normally acheive during the game.

I have never heard of this twinking exploit though. HOw can one get to the mirror without being a hight level to begin with?

(BTW: If the devs are unhappy with something in the future they need to change the program. They should not just make a rule they can't police and just expect people to follow it. This only hurts and frustrates the people who play by the rules who are now at a disadvantage because they can't do the same thing their opposing guilds are doing.)

Pop

thorizdin · May 25, 2005, 10:22 PM // 22:22

Quote:

Originally Posted by Poppinjay

I have never heard of this twinking exploit though. HOw can one get to the mirror without being a hight level to begin with?

Read this:

http://www.guild-hall.net/forum/showthread.php?p=203140

Lulu was able to ascend in 5 hours, when he got to the mirror he was only level 3.

Luggage · May 25, 2005, 10:25 PM // 22:25

Quote:

Originally Posted by Synthos

Its called good tactics

It requires more working as a team then it does if you go in there and kill everything.
There is nothing cheap or wrong about it.

How does it take more team work?
1. nuke an enemy in range
2. someone teleports in - kills everything
3. people wait, perhaps heal and nuke if the one inside pulls close or needs healing.
4. cant bother waiting any more
5. opens the door, kills last enemy.

next
repeat

cheap and booring
And yea I feel the same about glitching the door on Elonas to not start the timer.

And as for a fix, moving the spawnpoints so that you cant kill them without opening the door is soo easy and they have done it on many maps from the betas.

Synthos · May 25, 2005, 10:32 PM // 22:32

Quote:

Originally Posted by thorizdin

Read this:

http://www.guild-hall.net/forum/showthread.php?p=203140

Lulu was able to ascend in 5 hours, when he got to the mirror he was only level 3.

Having level 20's run you everywere is hardly an exploit..

Quote:

Originally Posted by Luggage

How does it take more team work?
1. nuke an enemy in range
2. someone teleports in - kills everything
3. people wait, perhaps heal and nuke if the one inside pulls close or needs healing.
4. cant bother waiting any more
5. opens the door, kills last enemy.

next
repeat

cheap and booring
And yea I feel the same about glitching the door on Elonas to not start the timer.

And as for a fix, moving the spawnpoints so that you cant kill them without opening the door is soo easy and they have done it on many maps from the betas.

Im sorry this cheapens your experience, I really dont find it cheap and boring at all. Whats more boring then killing everything the conventional way. My girlfriend uses it to transport herself up into the towers in riverside

Sadye X · May 25, 2005, 10:37 PM // 22:37

Quote:

Originally Posted by Nash

Oh no! You can beat a mission easier using it!
It's like the only use of Necrotic Transversal, anyway.

I'll assume you've never played much pvp as a nec then ...

A widely used tactic in pvp ( at least in my experience vs. any opposing guild team who's at least semi-organized ) is to *pin* casters against a wall or anything else in the area. No need to use cripple / knockdown when you can just lock em in place preventing the ability to run in the first place. The *most* organized teams I've gone up against actually have two warriors ignore the monks and go directly for any mes / nec / ele on the map, pin & rip em apart while your ranger etc keeps heals interrupted.

A good nec may be able to survive for a short period in this situation, but you'll still go down fairly quickly. If there's a single other corpse in the area NT = get out of death free ( and do some area damage to boot )

Luggage · May 25, 2005, 10:48 PM // 22:48

Quote:

Originally Posted by Synthos

Im sorry this cheapens your experience, I really dont find it cheap and boring at all. Whats more boring then killing everything the conventional way. My girlfriend uses it to transport herself up into the towers in riverside

That sounds like a better use

"How does it take more team work?" was the question tho.
And yea it's booring unless you are the one with necrotic traversal...
Waiting for someone to clear a map is not booring to you?

ps. how does she get down?

Aiwahead · May 26, 2005, 05:10 AM // 05:10

Focus fire on the one in the tower - Kill - Necrotic traversal - Kill the others. They cant hurt you?

DrSLUGFly · May 26, 2005, 05:14 AM // 05:14

I agree, finding an inventive way to use a spell like necrotravel is clever, it's not an exploit. I say props to the person who figured out they could do it.

kaya · May 26, 2005, 05:48 PM // 17:48

Quote:

Originally Posted by DrSLUGFly

I agree, finding an inventive way to use a spell like necrotravel is clever, it's not an exploit. I say props to the person who figured out they could do it.

I DO TO!

and something to add to this little inventive way to get theese missions done, and keep things interesting is... at the third and final area where you have to kill the three teams. it's really easy to send a Necro over... and while he's fighting to stay alive everyon outside is fighting to get killed. reason for this... you slowely kill yourselves off so he can use rebirth on you.

then walla! your all in! Mwahahaha! We did this yesterday and we able to get 6 of the 6 group members all in. finished the mission without a timer. oh, and as a hint... hard to kill those freekin brute warriors of yours? (or anyone else for that matter) let em handle a -1 health regen wep... they'll be dead and rebirth'd to the inside in no time al all.

but, just fyi: this is more for fun than anything else. theese missions Rreally aren't that hard at all. just gotta play it smart. but as for something new to play around with... i'd say go for it.

Call it The Necrotic Traversal ReBirthing Tactic

:P enjoy

BoogieKnights · May 26, 2005, 05:58 PM // 17:58

necrotic travelsal teleports u to a corpse with your range right?

just because the designers didnt leave a big enough gap between the inside/outside of the arenas making it possible to create corpses isn't an exploit.

the spell does exactly what it says it does, the mobs are in range waiting to be turned into corpses, so...where is the crime?

using tactics to overcome geography seems pretty cool to me

Rasp · May 26, 2005, 05:59 PM // 17:59

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sadye X

I'll assume you've never played much pvp as a nec then ...

A widely used tactic in pvp ( at least in my experience vs. any opposing guild team who's at least semi-organized ) is to *pin* casters against a wall or anything else in the area. No need to use cripple / knockdown when you can just lock em in place preventing the ability to run in the first place. The *most* organized teams I've gone up against actually have two warriors ignore the monks and go directly for any mes / nec / ele on the map, pin & rip em apart while your ranger etc keeps heals interrupted.

A good nec may be able to survive for a short period in this situation, but you'll still go down fairly quickly. If there's a single other corpse in the area NT = get out of death free ( and do some area damage to boot )

They should really fix this.

EDIT: Nevermind, another post on another thread has changed my views on this, somewhat. It would give the game a more realistic feel to it.

Zfactor · May 26, 2005, 06:04 PM // 18:04

Thirsty river is so easy with a semi-competant group that I see anybody who does it as people who like to make mountains out of mole hills. Just do the mission, its so incredibly easy.

EDIT- also what do we care if somebody ruins their own PvE experience, its not like it effects us in any way. Its like if i got mad because somebody cheats on their single-player console games... who the hell cares?